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Colin Cowherd On The Big Lead, Gottlieb’s Awkward Interview, And Cliff Lee Calling Him A Liar

Colin Cowherd is a busy fellow. He hosts “The Herd,” an extremely popular, nationally syndicated radio show on ESPN in the morning, and co-hosts “Sports Nation,” a web-centric TV show on ESPN 2 in the afternoon.

Between all of this, he has somehow found time to be the center of controversy on numerous occasions. Whether it’s being criticized for ordering his listeners to overload a popular sports blog, or getting called a liar by one of baseball’s best pitchers, there have been times when it seems like everybody hates Colin Cowherd.

I spoke with him over the phone last week, and we talked about The Big Lead, Cliff Lee, Brett Favre, Jenn Sterger, and what writers he’d want working for him if he ever started a sports blog. Here is that conversation.

You co-host SportsNation with Michelle Beadle, and routinely play the role of “bad cop.” One thing that jumps out at me is when you did a show live from the University of Wisconsin last month, and one of the poll questions asked what was more beloved: Brett Favre (who is no longer well liked in that state) or cheese. You had to side with Brett Favre. Ever get tired of picking the choices that most people don’t like?

You know, I’ve never worried too much about being popular. I believe in what I believe, and I think when I first came to ESPN, people thought “Oh, he’s just trying to be contrarian.” I always believed: I am just what I am – I came to ESPN with a fully established personality. I didn’t come to ESPN at 22 Years old, I wasn’t a young broadcaster.

I was in my mid-30s, I’d been on the air for 12 years. I knew I had a style and this was my style, and I’m never bothered by criticism, I don’t read the criticism, and I don’t care. I’m critical of people, so it would be hypocritical of me to be thin-skinned about it. So it never bothers me.

I believe over the long term of a career, people get to trust you. And they’re not going to trust you if you are blowing with the wind. I have strong beliefs and theories and I stick with them.

One of those instances where you did draw criticism was back in 2007, when you asked your listeners to blow up The Big Lead. It actually did knock it offline for 48 hours. As a result of that this label got stuck to you as a “radio guy who doesn’t like sports blogs.” Has your attitude towards sports blogs changed since then?

I never thought I was anti-blog. My feeling on the blogs has always been the same: I give you legitimacy because I talk about you. Whether people like me or not, I’m one of the most listened-to sports radio guys in the country. Depending on the ratings service I’m either first or second.

So, if I’m talking about you, I’m going to send people to your site. I was never anti-blog. I thought when the blogs were initially created they were trying to get noticed and sometimes I thought they went over the top, but I’ve never thought I’m anti-blog.

I read two or three regularly. I think by and large, they’ve really grown. You know, the traditional media had a 150 year head start. I think blogs have really matured, and I think they break stories. I think to brush off the blogs is ridiculous. The Big Lead and SportsByBrooks are two that have broken stories. And I think as a broadcaster you have to be foolish or arrogant or a combination of both not to at least acknowledge that they’ve emerged and have a place on the scene.

I may mock them, but I don’t mock anybody that’s irrelevant. I’m a syndicated guy, so I’ve got to talk about stuff that matters, so if I’m mocking you, to some degree, you matter. I may poke somebody in the ribs but it’s largely because I’m a consumer of your product. I’ve got news for you: I read the blogs more than I read the American newspapers.

How to you get your news? What sites and services do you use?

I’m very lucky. I have an incredible television staff, and I have an incredible radio staff. When I get into work in the morning at seven o’clock they’ve got ten to fifteen stories laid out for me. So I start my day by reading a ton of stuff. I’m incredibly fortunate that I’m furnished a lot of stories by a staff that searches them out.

If I’m home and have fifteen minutes, I’ll check out The Big Lead, SportsByBrooks, ProFootballTalk.com. And then I’ll go to a variety of writers I like: Jason Whitlock, Dan Le Batard, Gregg Doyel, and a handful of guys around the country I like. Bill Simmons I think is thoughtful.

I tend to like people who are willing to paddle against the stream. If tomorrow I decided to give up radio and television and I was going to create the world’s most popular sports blog, I would hire TJ Simers, Jason Whitlock, Dan Le Batard, and Bill Simmons. Because they get people talking.

And I think that’s really important. I’m not looking for the most elegant prose. Do I think those guys are the best writers? Maybe not. Bill Plaschke may be the best pure writer or essayist, or Mitch Albom, or Joe Posnanski at Sports Illustrated. But it’s changed. I want people who people talk about. Dan Le Batard writes columns and it ends up being the discussion on national sports radio, and that’s the new world we live in.

Are you interesting? That’s what I care about. Do you create discussion? The guys I like make me think. I disagree with Jason Whitlock 98% of the time, but he makes me think. Why can’t anybody appreciate that? Why do you have to agree with someone to like them?

You spoke with Peter King on your ESPN radio show, “The Herd,” yesterday, and one of the topics that came up was the Brett Favre/Jenn Sterger controversy. It’s an example of a story that came to light exclusively because of a sports blog, and one that is now garnering an increasing amount of mainstream media attention. When the story first broke on Deadspin, however, very few media outlets outside of the internet would touch it. When something like that, that is originally reported on the web and is so potentially explosive, breaks, when do you decide that it’s worth talking about on your show? And how much of that strategy is dictated by ESPN?

Not much is dictated by ESPN. Although occasionally, like in the case of Ben Roethlisberger, ESPN said “We want to get something verified.” And I respect ESPN’s wishes – you know, they’re my employer.

At ESPN, I’m probably one of the more outspoken people at the company. And they’ve rarely harnessed me. And it’s generally asking me to use a different word with Barry Bonds so they don’t get sued. “Please Colin, use the word ‘allegedly.’” They have rarely harnessed me. In a Big Ben situation, for about six or seven hours one day they said, “Guys we need something verified, hold on.”

Usually if I see a story on Deadspin, I’ll call two or three people. I’ll go to mainstream media. I’ll double-triple-check. I’d rather be right than first. I’ll keep checking. I’ll ask a boss at ESPN, I can go to upper management, “What are you hearing?” I can wander the halls, I know where [ESPN’s vice president and director of news] Vince Doria is at, I’ll ask people. My gut feeling is generally pretty good: this I can go with, this I can’t. But blogs have broken too many stories in the last 3 or 4 years not to take them seriously.

Because I’m at ESPN, I have a big audience. And when you have that power, with that comes some responsibility. I’ve got to be a little more careful than maybe a local radio broadcaster. But that’s okay, that’s the yin and the yang. Maybe I have to wait a day, but I have seven times the audience. Twelve times the audience. Thirty times the audience. With that great power comes a little more responsibility and reticence.

You began your career in Vegas, starting out as a play-by-play guy for the Las Vegas Stars, before becoming the sports director KVBC-TV, also in Vegas. Do you have any crazy sports-related Vegas stories?

I was very polarizing. UNLV was very popular, and I was perceived as anti-Tark [ed. note: Cowherd is referring to former UNLV men's basketball coach Jerry Tarkanian]. I got a couple of death threats. The media there was mostly, like a lot of local media, was a complete lap-dog media.

One of the things I’m really discouraged about is that I see this increasing homerism in local media. It drives me crazy. Why is there this obligation to wave a pom-pom? It’s just disgusting. I find it almost repulsive that broadcasters locally have become essentially fans.

Are you talking about print journalism, or-

I’m talking about everybody: radio, local TV, print. Print may be better at it than most. Print probably does a better job of being objective. I cannot believe when I turn on radio in local markets what homers people are. I think it’s such a disservice to the audience.

So, this may backfire, but my pledge for the next couple of years is to really watch local media and to call out people. It’s just amazing to me what’s happened. Maybe it’s because teams now employ the broadcaster in baseball and football. Didn’t used to be that way: the broadcaster used to be separate, now he’s part of the payroll.

Who jumps out to you in terms of local market homerism?

Well I tell you who jumps out at me not: Dale Hansen in Dallas. Always willing to pick on Jerry Jones. Le Batard. TJ Simers. Mike Francesa in New York is willing to go after people. Rob Parker in Detroit, he’ll go after people. John Canzano in Portland does a very good job of taking on the local icons.

I think our role in the media, at least to some degree, is to be honesty brokers, and not to be intimidated by hate mail. That’s kind of why I like the blogs, to be honest with you: they’re not affiliated. Most bloggers don’t make a ton of money, so they’re willing to take more risks. And I find myself kind of a fan of that edgy, Gonzo journalism style.

Do you ever feel like the risk is just for the sake of taking a risk? I think one of the problems bloggers sometimes run into is that your job is to be opinionated. And I think as a radio host you can relate to this: to have such strong opinions constantly. Sometimes twelve to fifteen times a day. Does that that notion that you have to be opinionated for the sake of being opinionated get in the way of looking at a situation and taking it for what it’s worth?

Yeah, there are times when I say folks just don’t have a strong opinion on it. When the Brett Favre story first came out I’m like, “I’m not sure what to do with this. Where do I go with this?”

That’s a valid point. More than once or twice a day I don’t have a strong opinion on something. I’ll just say: the Rays and the Rangers. I don’t know who’s going to win this series. I don’t have a strong opinion. I have a strong opinion on five football games a week – but there’s eighty football games a week.

I don’t have a problem with being more theatrical in my presentation than I would in a regular discussion, but I would never make something up for radio. Never have, never will.

In regards to the Favre/Sterger story: when did that story become news – does it become news after the initial report on Deadspin, does it become news when the AP reports on it, or does it become news when the NFL announces they’ve launched a formal investigation? At what point does it become a viable news story?

I’m in the topic business. I’m in the story business. I’m not in the news business. So I don’t know if it’s news. I know it’s a story, I know it’s a topic. “Favre, Fame, Sex, Allegations, Controversy.” That’s a topic. That’s a story.

I am not Walter Cronkite. I am not on the news desk. Brett Favre sneezing at an intersection on an old lady is a story. For me, Brett Favre is a topic, Brett Favre is a story. To what degree it’s a story I guess is based, to some degree, on how I frame it, or on what information comes out of it. Something doesn’t have to be that newsworthy to be a very good topic. Something can be big news but not a great topic.

When the coach at Grambling died, Eddie Robinson, I said “I’m a college football fan, but it’s not a topic.” It was really big news. Legendary coach dies. But it’s not a topic. I’m in the topic business and Favre is almost always a good topic.

Doug Gottlieb recently filled in for you on “The Herd,” and had a much-talked about interview with former Atlanta Falcons head coach Jim Mora, Jr., wherein Mora took offense to some of Gottlieb’s questions regarding Mike Vick, and whether Vick played to his full potential under Mora. Gottlieb himself was interviewed on 104.3 the Fan in Denver and, although he conceded that he may have come off as a bit snarky, overall, he sounds like he was surprised by Mora’s reaction. What’s your take on that interview?

Well I felt like halfway through it Mora just decided he was not a fan of Gottlieb, and that’s a very difficult position to be in. I’ve interviewed Mora twice, and he can be kind of reluctant, he’s a little odd, but I’ve had two different NFL sources – one in Seattle, one in Atlanta where he was fired at both – that said his personality inhibited his success.

I think Doug probably came off to some people as pushy or maybe a little annoying, but I don’t like to judge other broadcasters during live broadcasts. It’s hard, I’ve been there. It felt like to me that Mora was a little thin-skinned, got agitated, started pushing things, and I thought his sign-off was immature.

The Texas Rangers and New York Yankees are in the midst of their ALCS series, and one of the key players – perhaps the key player – is Cliff Lee. Back in late August, you said on your radio show that a source told you that Lee had already decided on going to the Yankees when he became a free agent after this season. The comments drew criticism from Lee himself, who said that it was untrue. Do you still stand by your source?

Oh, absolutely. The source told me that he wanted to be a Yankee. He was disappointed when it didn’t go through, he loves pitching on the big stage, he didn’t want to go to Texas because he didn’t think long term he would stay there, and I still think he’ll be a Yankee.

The guy had been moved around all over the country, this is his fourth team in like fifteen months, and he wanted to go somewhere where he could stay. I think he sees himself as a Yankee or a big market pitcher, and, let’s be honest, if you’re a Texas Ranger, the chances of you regularly visiting the ALCS or the World Series aren’t great.

The deal was almost done in New York – in fact, it had been reported as done. And then others said, “Nope, it came unraveled,” and he was disappointed. My source told me that he wanted to be a Yankee, he had talked to CC Sabathia, he was talking about houses, he was ready to go, he was disappointed, because he was tired of moving, he wanted to make one more stop and stay there, and if it was New York he saw himself ending his career there. So I stand by that, and I do believe he’ll become a Yankee.

You intimated that when he played Baltimore after the deal came undone he wasn’t giving his best effort…

Yeah I mean he got shelled twice by Baltimore, once by Kansas City, but he’s unhittable every time he faces a Yankee. I said, in my opinion, it looks like, to me, that emotionally whenever he faced a premiere team that would vie for his services he amped his game up. Yet when he faced Baltimore and Kansas City, two teams with no shot to get him that he’d never play for, he mailed it in.

Say what you want – he couldn’t get to the fifth inning against the Orioles. But he owned the Yankees, owned the Rays, what does that tell you? It tells you that he’s a human being. What I would say to that is when you go on a date with a pretty girl, you amp it up.

It feels like to me he’s auditioning for jobs – which, by the way, I don’t blame him. He said I was lying that he wasn’t mailing it in. Call it what you want. But I don’t think it was a coincidence that he got shelled by the two worst teams in the American League and dominated the best.

Image via Getty

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